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Inclusion School podcast hosts, Simone Morris and Julie Kratz, share real live scenarios and stories about their children and communities. Listen in to this week’s real talk!

Simone Morris: Well, welcome to this week’s episode of Inclusion School Podcast. Today, Julie and I decided we want to do a Real Talk. It’s been a while, and we know that these are well received and there is, believe us listeners, a lot going on. And so, Julie, hello, how are you today?

Julie Kratz: Hey, Simone. I love our Real Talk episodes. It’s a fan favorite and it’s a personal favorite of mine to spend some time talking with you about these hot topics that aren’t just happening in the workplace anymore. DEI is very much entering our home life, our school systems. Hot topic for sure.

Simone Morris: It is everywhere. You’re so right, and we are constantly challenged to show up authentically and help others along the journey. So, looking forward to unpacking some of these topics with you. I know that before we began recording, we started sharing experiences, and I was sharing an experience to say that this is not easy work, Julie, because sometimes what you’re trying to do professionally bumps up against who you are personally. And we’re finding, in the work that we do, that you’ve got to intermingle the two. And I will say that it gives me pause.

So, I had an example of my daughter showing up at the playground and interacting with another child who is a lot older, and I’m wondering to myself, “Julie, am I discriminating, doing ageism,” because I’m thinking that, for her age group… So, my daughter is six and usually, after school at the playground, the kids that play there go from kindergarten to, I would say, second grade or so. It’s not a steep jump, but we have someone who’s in high school that has been coming to the playground on a regular basis and I find my mama bear instincts just being hypervigilant about being a mama bear about their interactions, about the leadership style that this high school student has over these young kids and just bossing them around, just… I struggle with it. And then, I’m playing in my mind. Am I not being inclusive? What do you think, Julie?

Julie Kratz: Yeah, the everyday nuances. You and I have tools and things we can use in the workplace and how to help with microaggressions, how to be an ally, but when it comes down to your neighborhood playground, things get very real, very quick. And I think, Simone, for you going into that mama bear mode, I mean, your job is to protect your child, first and foremost.

I think for me, it’s really understanding the intentions of it. And the curiosity piece, I know we’ve talked about that a lot. Instead of judging, right, this older kid, like “Why would you want to play with younger kids,” right.
Simone Morris: So hard.

Julie Kratz: All right, let’s be curious. What’s going on with this fellow? He is interested in playing, right? But I know coming at things with positive intention and from a curious mindset, but it does change with age. A lot of our talks, just because our kids are younger, have focused on elementary school, but we know as kids go into middle school and then high school, biases become much more well cemented, behavior, vocabulary expands. So, I think about age-appropriate comments and what kind of conversations they are having? Is Millie ready for that, too?

Simone Morris: She’s not ready, although she may think that she’s ready. I struggle. I really struggle with framing, and I think other parents struggle with framing. How do I frame this so I’m not being exclusive? So, how do I stay curious with my framing? So, I don’t want to frame it and say, “What are you doing here? Why do you come here every…” That’s… How you deliver it, because it makes me think of Trayvon Martin, honestly challenging, you don’t belong here because it’s an open school playground.

What I will say, Julie, is for me, it’s a good thing because I’m recognizing and sort of unpacking my response to the situation and evaluating how I can show up differently, instead of just staying in mama bear mode, fiercely, and this is how I show up. I’m trying to figure out how to appropriately show up because there’s not another parent involved. Normally, with these age nuances and differences, there may be a parent where you can go and have a conversation, but in absence of the parents, how do I engage, staying in the zone of curiosity, in an inviting way to have respectable dialogue?

Julie Kratz: Yeah. Well, and I think too, one of the things we talked about on the podcast a lot is, for our kids, teaching them how to navigate differences and celebrating it through friendship. That’s how Charlotte Wants A BFF was all written because Millie wanted to have a BFF, a best friend forever, and that message resonates, so it’s kind of a fun wrapper to have a more serious conversation about differences and diversity.

I think that was really the impetus of why we wrote Charlotte Wants a BFF, because we knew how important the message was about friendship and appreciating differences through friendship, and both of our daughters really wanted that best friend. And we wanted to write a story where diversity was part of it, but it was also a fun story that they could enjoy reading.

And I wonder, in this situation, if there is a lesson for all of us, in this lesson about appreciating others that are different than us through friendship, through extending friendship, through being there, through playing with somebody that’s different than you, whether that’s age or other dimensions of diversity.

Simone Morris: Julie, I wonder how you would… If this scenario was playing out with Jane, how would you handle it? I’m just curious.

Julie Kratz: Yeah. I think without knowing the parents, I think that’s a really good point. I’m a little persnickety with kids’ parents.

Simone Morris: There isn’t a parent there. There isn’t a parent for you to talk to.

Julie Kratz: I know, and I really struggle, honestly. In a similar vein, I struggle when there aren’t parents around or they don’t know the child’s parents. All of the friends that come over or that Jane plays with, even at the pool or in her community, I know their parents. I’ve talked to them. And so, I know that’s not possible in this situation, but I struggle when I don’t know the full context or I don’t know what behavior is being modeled for those kids.

We had a situation where I was actually probably not so nice, just some neighborhood kids that just walked right in the door and I’m like, “That’s not okay here. We have norms and that’s not what’s going to happen here. Y’all need to leave, and if you want to play, you can play outside.”

So, I can be a bit of a tough mom sometimes, but I think, for me, it’s again, knowing where this kiddo is coming from, like what’s motivating him to want to play with younger children. I’m just wondering the impact and me channeling the empathy is… What’s going on that he doesn’t have friends his own age?

Julie Kratz: Why is that, and what could this be providing that he might be missing in other aspects of his life? But I totally get it. This whole idea of DEI, I think it’s tethering. It’s a yes, and conversation, and there’s no perfect way to do this. I think we put a lot of pressure on ourselves as parents already, and then you layer on something like diversity and you put pressure on that, and that’s just a lot. It’s a lot to take on because you can’t do these things perfectly.

Simone Morris: Yeah. I think that’s the key that you’re saying there, Julie, is that we are imperfect beings and to cut ourselves some slacks. We’re usually very hard on ourselves as parents to begin with. What I took from the story is that there is an opportunity to get curious and to better get to know this student.

Simone Morris: Get to know them. It’s almost like I’m slowing down.

Simone Morris: It’s with DEI, as well. Diversity, equity and inclusion. You’ve got to slow down, to dance with discomfort and that’s what’s required here. I’ve got to slow down instead of, we’ve got to get here, here, here-

Julie Kratz: What’s going on here, and just kind of speeding through because we, as parents, are being watched, not only by our children, but by others. So, just be mindful of how to show up. So, I think talking it through has been helpful to think about different approaches for this situation that continues to happen.

Julie Kratz: We have to keep this posted on the playground situation.

Simone Morris: Yeah. We’re going to have to write a book, Julie, called The Playground.

Julie Kratz: The playground is so interesting for people watching. I think listeners, pay attention the next time your kid’s playing. I know I have a tendency to take a podcast down or a book, not pay attention as long as my kid’s safe, but I think if you spend a few minutes just watching the behaviors of kiddos… Who’s getting played with, who’s not. Who’s following, who’s leading. There’s a lot of gendered behavior that happens very early, for example. There’s racial behavior that happens, age, like we were talking about, so slow down. Yeah.

Julie Kratz: I love that message, Simone, just slow down, because our brain operates so quickly. Those biases and assumptions just happen simultaneously without us even having to think about it, and sometimes it’s just helpful to just be present, take in the environment for just a few minutes, and really think about your kid being as inclusive as you’d like him to be, right. Maybe there’s a lesson you could model for your kid. Or if they’re being bullied or led in a non-inclusive way, maybe there’s an opportunity to talk through some strategies with your kiddo, but just observing, taking it all in, and like you said, the importance of slowing down. That’s great.

Simone Morris: Love that. Love that. I’ll keep you posted. I’ve got notes on what I need to do, conversations that I need to have, so love that. That’s why I love these Real Talk episodes that we have.

Want to talk with your children about diversity and inclusion yet not sure where to start?

Here are some ideas to help:

1. Visit your local library and pick up books featuring children that are different than your children

2. Follow the cultural celebrations each month (black history, women’s history, etc.) and ASK your children about the topics.

3. Take your children to an event that celebrates a different culture and talk about their experiences.

4. Do your homework.  Spend some time getting up to speed listening to Real Talk episodes of the Inclusion School podcast.

5. Ask your children what differences they notice in people (visible and non-apparent).

6. Meet your children where they are at.  Listen to learn from them.  Stay curious and suspend judgment.

7. Check out the Inclusion School resources page for recommended books lists, organizations that support diversity and inclusion, and other ideas.

8. Follow Inclusion School on Pinterest to get the latest book recommendations, craft ideas, and blogs featuring diversity and inclusion experts.

Download the full discussion guide to talk with children here.

Want more ideas or have questions?  Connect with us directly at talktous@inclusionschool.com.

If you are a parent or educator interested in diversity and inclusion, yet unsure of where to start, or how to have conversations with children about it, you are not alone.  Inclusion School is the place with tools and resources to start this important dialogue. This weekly show brings together inclusion experts, authors, and educators alike to share ideas and tools to help you have an impactful conversation with kids on diversity and inclusion.  The show will be hosted by Simone Morris and Julie Kratz, inclusion strategists. As parents to young children, Simone and Julie have a shared passion for educating parents and educators about this journey.

The journey starts here…

Across the U.S. many industries are taking an active role in the pursuit of becoming more inclusive. It is an arduous undertaking to re-lay the foundations of our past and dispel the biases that we have grown to believe as adults. And, while we attend workshops, make ourselves vulnerable to new experiences to allow growth and a better understanding, our biggest lessons are being taught to us by our children, and their experiences, as they interact with the world.  

Let’s start with the facts.

Studies show that children as young as three years old have awareness of differences and similarities between people. As parents of these children, it is our responsibility to teach them the importance of acceptance and inclusion, by having these conversations, modeling inclusive behaviors and guiding them to be accepting of others and their differences.

What has held us back in the past is lack of understanding on the subject matter. These conversations are difficult, personal or private to us. Many of us feel uncomfortable even addressing certain issues. In addition, we do not have the experiences that would bring another’s challenges into our focus.  There just aren’t many resources available to help parents identify what they need to speak to their children about and how to have those conversations. When a child is inquisitive about something or someone that they do not understand, it is natural for them to ask a parent. When the child is answered with “We don’t talk about that”, “Don’t say that”, or is shushed; the child is left to draw conclusions on their own. In some cases, they are forced to rely on their peers for information, or even worse, television, movies or social media to give them a misguided representation of the world around them. 

How do we bridge the gap? 

We have taken all of these elements into consideration and feel the solution is to create a resource to educate parents, share knowledge, promote confidence to share your learning and insights with your children and guidance on how to model inclusive behavior. This is why we have developed the Inclusion School to focus on key areas of inclusion.  Each episode will feature discussion on an underrepresented group and will share insights, actionable steps and resources you can use to facilitate conversations with your children.  

Topics we will explore: 

• Race

• Gender

• Sexual Orientation

• Disabilities

• Family Diversity

• Religion & Cultural Diversity

• Socioeconomic

• Empathy/Self-Awareness

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HRC Foundation's Welcoming Schools is the nation's premier professional development program providing training and resources to elementary school educators to:

• Embrace All Families

• Create LGBTQ+ and Gender Inclusive Schools

• Prevent Bias-Based Bullying

• Support Transgender and Non-Binary Students

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Since 2016, EmbraceRace has supported parents, guardians, educators, and other caregivers working to raise children who are thoughtful, informed and brave about race so that U.S. multiracial democracy can thrive. We identify, organize, and create the tools, resources, discussion spaces, and networks to:

• Nurture resilience and joy in children of color

• Nurture inclusive, empathetic children of all stripes

• Raise kids who think critically about race and racial inequality

• Support a movement of kid and adult racial justice advocates for all children